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Dinarzad last won the day on June 13

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  1. Make it a balance weight. Neutral Chaplains are all about self-sufficiency right? survival? They're tanky, not so much Damagey. Your Good chaplains are your typical priest archetypes, they're healers/support types. This comes at personal cost and/or the shitty ability to harm others, even for self-defense. So by that nature if dark chaplains are mostly based on damage, perhaps that comes with a cost. After all, these are dark, twisted beings the chaplain serves, they don;t give out power without a price. To help discourage valid-salads maybe they take more damage depending on the types of null rod they take? you want that LOL MUH DEEPS style Frostmourne-esque sword? Cool but now you take the same kinda damage as an IPC does. Cthulhu giveth and Cthulhu taketh away, either you bring more souls to him or you end up dead and he claims yours, either way he wins in the end etc. etc. If we're looking to discourage validhunting with Evil Chap, that'd be my suggestion for it. Good got shit all for damage and meh defense, but are super good with others around them, Neutral has lots of self-sufficiency, like normal chappy does, and evil can do some pain train, but it comes with some hefty consequences as per your Dark Contract. Also: As long as that good chaplain has dem prayer beads, this sounds dope and I will pray that you don;t get gibbed when Medbay forgets how to yank out xeno larva.
  2. A good way I've found to summarize it up is usually: It's easy to get materials to repair IPCs, but a pain in the ass to do the repairs. It's hard to get the materials to heal a human, but easy to do with those. Everything needed to fix an IPC is pretty much available in public access rooms, things you get from cargo or are in toolboxes all over the station. Easy to find, but doing the repairs, like tzo said, is really a slow process that most people don't seem to know how to do. IPCs NEED surgery past a certain threshold cuz of internal structural damage once over a damage cap. I know IPC repairs off the top of my head usually, but even I sometimes fuck 'em up or stumble over one I do rarely. An that was before the "IPCs bleed oil" thing Iunno how it is after that. Conversely, the stuff to heal humans is hard to get hold of, mostly being limited to the Medical department itself or from Chemistry, and are not handed out willy-nilly. But the process of healing them is easy as pie. Slap on a synthflesh patch, dump into cryo, clone, defib, etc. are all easy. Even surgeries are mitigated by the fact you only really ever have to do surgery for things like broken bones or internal organ/bleeding, due to aforementioned Cryo an such, so you memorize those handfuls and you're really set unless something unusual pops in. Again, I know most of those surgeries by heart, being someone that played a lot of medical and a lot of IPC, I screw up meat surgery far less then metal surgery
  3. IPC currently are one of, if not the, most unique of the karma races. They have the most day to day differences in their mechanics, using APCs/Cyborg rechargers for 'food', the utterly different way they have to heal themselves, feeling no pain, no breathing, such on an such forth. This is mostly what draws people to them, the very different playing experience and RP that they provide over being human or most the other organic races. To give other lesser played races a similar treatment is something I absolutely whole-heartedly agree, on, the more of those kinds of differences we can introduce to races the better I'd feel. I'd LOVE have weird shit with slime people that emphasizes they ARE made of sentient goo, or to emphasize the insect nature of the Kidan, use of pheromones or something. Not even necessarily BUFFS, just weird unique interactions. You'd be surprised how much more I wanted to play Kidan when they got the click-clack sound emotes. IPCs suffer horrible downsides from EMOPs and yet tons of people still play them because of those unique interactions and systems. Kidan, as an example, however, don't really have much of interest to make up for their big bug eyes. Yeah they have the armor, but that's very passive, there's little there that makes them FEEL different, you instead just feel like a human who can't wear goggles. That's the problem, as designing systems like that for so many species is going to be hard, but I think it's the best thing. People are a lot more willing to deal with even intense negatives, so long as the final result is different and provides a unique perspective. Personal opinion would be to, either among staff members or the community as a whole, open threads for the current race being looked at and put forth ideas that would make sense for the creature, ignore balance and work backwards from there. Like Grey having telekinesis. Makes sense. As ideas pile up, so there's a pool to work from, then administration can sort out via internal discussion of "I mean this makes sense and WOULD be cool, but that's broken af" Because ultimately, at the end of the day, this has been a very talked about subject for a long time, and the end call is made with the people coding those changes and the people approving them.
  4. I wanna put this out there right now, that if this is the direction Paradise goes, I will be the first one out the door. To clarify, I'm not saying this as some kind of threat to prevent admins from going that direction, I'm an on again, off again player, me leaving is gonna cause no problems. But I AM saying is so that staff members know that it very much is an extreme position to some. The entire appeal to paradise from my side as well as others, is that the various alien races, are actually alien in some regard. They don't play identically to a human, because that's dumb. There's no reason a robot should be identical to a human, nor why a living space bird cyborg should be identical to a bipedal cat, and so on. That is, to me, the main draw. It's what helps make things unique and while it does cause balance issues, also helps encourage immersion because you're not just acting like "Oh*beep boo;* no, the EMP is *beep boop* hurting me!" You are actually, as a player, kind of scared of EMPs because they'll ACTUALLY destroy your hopes and dreams as an IPC/Cyborg/etc. So I put this out there here and now, you'll lose players if you take that route. If you still feel that's the best path and this is what staff/community agree is best for the server, hey, I can respect that, you gotta do what you think is the right move, and I sure hell don't know what is anymore then anyone else does. But you should be prepared to alienate a few people in the act.
  5. Mmm. Instead of just gathering money, what if the objective were to empty the station's account? It's a harder feat to accomplish then just getting money, and fits the syndicate narrative of corporation espionage/sabotage by going for NT's pocketbook.
  6. To add on to this further: You also may not necessarily have gotten Karma for doing something that is important for a Captain. And to clarify I mean, you could just as easily have gotten the necessary karma to buy the Captain, by just being good at surgery/medical, or RPing decently as a civilian. Those are good things to know, no doubt and a captain who knows how to RP is equally VERY nice. But end of the day, that doesn't mean the person is necessarily gonna be any more efficient as a Captain then right now. They might know how to RP, but still know dick all about Space Law or SoP or what have you. Conversely Magistrate costs karma and a fair chunk of Karma, because it's more a matter of trust, then anything else, given just what that job is allowed to do, but is also not necessary to the station's function. Cappy is a necessity, he really needs to be there, so it just has a playtime limit to help weed out the newest players from stumbling into the most important job ever.
  7. Dinarzad

    Id Shredder

    Target sign isn't a problem, when it's a target sign for someone else, now is it? All you need is for someone to NOT know who you REALLY are, you don't give a good God damn if they think you're Jim-Bob the Maintenance Hobo who was fired for being a dick to half the crew. Cargo turns on the trash grinder AT ALL, maybe once every three rounds? more then half the time I wander in there, it's not even fucked with, you'd be absolutely stupefied the amount of high-grade stuff I pull out of disposals. If a Traitor wants it, great. That's not the subject of this discussion, the subject of the discussion is an ID Disposal tool, for the Head of Staff whose ENTIRE JOB revolves around properly handing out, upgrading, downgrading and disposing of Identification Cards. It's sort of the HoP's job to do this, and preferably without causing casual security breaches by dumping ID tags that can still be used to fuck with Security, into public trash bins. You said there was no reason not to disposal them, and I simply provided a reason why putting them into a public area, even Terminated, is not something a HoP should be doing, to say nothing of the RP reasons like facilitating identity theft an shit that could be sued for. Imagine if an IRL company or bank just threw away old ID tags into the dumpster outside that anyone had access to. Are they invalid? Sure. Do the Security guards know that casually at a glance? Probably not. Could they be used to cause problems? You bet. Paper shredders and shit exist for a reason in offices that handle people's identification. (And before anyone mentions Sec HUDs, Terminated IDs do not have an icon of their own, they simply show up as an unrecognized ID, same as if someone had a custom title. Something not visible at a glance an would involve browsing through the manifest to bring it up first.) So there you go. It's not only adding to RP because it makes sense in-universe, it's no worse then disposaling it as we just established and it's a quality of life bump for the HoP. Small perks in it;s favor, with nothing really against it.
  8. According to SoP it's technically murder to do so without a signed form. However, if this was genuinely accidental, and the roboticist in question was willing to put the brain back into the body and see it off to cloning, I feel a sentence of perma or exile would be ludicrously over-kill. Demotion could be appropriate and probably the most likely outcome. People make mistakes. Fucking someone over for an hour and a half for a mistake they were very much willing to fix, seems like it'd be ... a little much. People seem to forget you can "De-borg" someone, and make them fleshy again. And if nobody is willing to cut someone slack for an honest mistake that they're willing to fix, then you really aren't giving them a reason to cooperate in any regard.
  9. Dinarzad

    Id Shredder

    Not entirely, as they can still be used to hide one's identity. While the ID itself has no access, the fact the ID has a name on it, means someone can use it to disguise themselves. And someone who wants a disguise is the kind of person who won't care if the ID is terminated, they either have the tools to break in to places or have something like an e-mag. In general, putting IDs anywhere public is asking for trouble, terminated or not.
  10. Being emagged by itself is not terrible. Being told "Welp gg no re you have 5 minutes to live then a 10 minute wait period, no matter what you do" is a problem. While some may not seek out being converted, it's not like there are players who would despise the sudden freedom to be an antag. There is actually a middle ground that exists between "Run at people and ask to be made antag" and "I never want to be converted ever." Personally, I don't like being emagged, don't like being antag period, but that doesn't mean I suddenly like what was done, because I'm thinking beyond my own personal feelings on the matter. The problem is, right now an emagged drone serves to be fun for no one. It;s not fun for the traitor, it;s not fun for the drone player, even someone who might be able to get into the "I am an evil sabotage bot" role and have fun with it, can't, because they have a whole 5 minutes to live. It is a change that benefits no one, harms a majority of players in multiple playstyles and does nothing to impair the one type of rule-breaking player that it was intended to stop.
  11. Just to put this out there, since most people didn;t read that PR in question by all accounts... My original argument (And still my current stance) is that if drones are going to be nerfed this hard and it;s the ONLY state that current staff will allow Emagged drones to be in, then yes I'd rather have them removed utterly. Better to remove them, then leave them as this broken, mess that is more of an active impediment and misery that they are in now. This was, is and will continue to be, my stance. Either tune it back, or just remove the option altogether, better that then to unintentionally fuck with people's heads.
  12. Because there's a big difference between removing a suicide pill, an item only designed to kill you to avoid capture, a pill that is very clearly labeled (It even has a skull an crossbones on it now). It is working as it is intended, it is SUPPOSED to kill you so that you won't be captured, or you can feed it to someone else if you so choose. And a device that has all the appearances of being a helpful tool for your agenda, that not only does nothing, but is an active detriment. It's the difference of me selling you something, the first one is a product I tell you flat out "This bottle is full of poison, so be careful with it." The next one is me telling you, it's a bottle of shampoo that will make your hair fabulous, and then it turns out to be Nair. You don't see where that just might be a little bit of an issue?
  13. Do you mean like the way I said it was a painful experience to play as, said that it did nothing to stop the actual problem but punished the people playing regularly, that it turned it into a noob trap for new antags to screw themselves over with? That the restrictions put on were horrifying? You mean THAT discussion of what was changed and how it made the server a worse place? Because I am pretty sure I did all that. So. No, I'm pretty sure you're looking for a reason to shut down my argument without ever having to address it. Moving goalposts isn't necessary here. Your comparison is flawed. You liken it to driving to a T intersection where you can only pick the pre-existing paths, but that's not what happens when a PR is made, is it? A PR is about CHANGING something, you are adding, removing or tweaking something. To work off your analogy, it is more similar to BUILDING that road, or in this case going back to a road already built and discussing with people how it should be changed. So again this binary logic does not work and I am still not sure where and how you are getting there. This was not a paid commission of code, this was not a set in stone truth of the universe, it was a PR providing a smorgasbord of options to do a thing, in this case to nerf Emagged maintenance drones. At no point, is someone obligated to push their PR EXACTLY as initially submitted, it can be changed. If you don't believe me, you can go read through older closed PRs and see how many of them were changed and tweaked from their initial submissions. So no, at no point did ALL OF THOSE things need to happen at the same time. And while you might not like this line of debate, you might deem it "of no substance" and irrelevant. It is actually, really really important we acknowledge this flaw, and acknowledge why it was bad, so that going forward we can, perhaps, not repeat the mistakes of the past. Something something not knowing history and being doomed to repeat it? Because this PR has already come and gone, it's a done deal. The least we can do is learn why it was a shit storm, so that we avoid future shit storms of that nature, going forward. And in the process we all learn the problems that shit storm has caused, but since you seem to think I didn't address this already, I'll indulge you with playing the broken record and repeating myself. The changes harm the server, because it's no good to the player base. It punishes the drone player for doing nothing wrong. It seeks to prevent people from intentionally being converted, and to make the drone far far less impactful when it IS emagged. In the former, it doesn't do a single thing. Someone who will intentionally be converted, will still do that, for a chance at a 5 minute murder/antag spree, no fuss, no muss. The latter was done so intensely that it has been left in a worthless/nigh worthless state. 5 minutes is not enough time to coordinate a plan from the traitor who emagged you, it is barely enough time to travel the station and begin your sabotage, it is all but impossible to do this quietly as you are painted with a giant "I AM EVIL" sign, and it is a clear giveaway that someone has an emag and is fucking with synths. So, stealthy sabotage bot is not quite in the cards, but their combat ability was also tanked as well on top. You cannot sneak. You cannot survive an attack. So what GOOD are you? This all, in addition. puts people on high alert REAL fast, so it actively strips some of your element of surprise away. It is a Noob Trap. Looks good on paper, but in actuality is inefficent and terrible, serving only to make people more guarded then if you had just left the Drone alone and just emagged into some location to do the sabotage manually. Drones may or may not have needed A nerf, but they did not need ALL the nerfs. TL;DR: It doesn't punish the people it is specifically trying to punish, instead it punishes the average joe who played the way they are supposed to. There is, after all, no way to know someone is holding an emag until he is emagging you, and running away is not an option, given you are slower and vent crawling takes time. In addition to punishing players with a shitty experience it punishes the traitor for doing it, by instead screwing him over, in the IDEAL case of the drone listening to his master, you get some minor sabotage at best, and your job made harder. In the case of someone just fucking off into the blue, you get nothing, and your job made harder.
  14. ... What? What.... does this even mean? You realize the PR was to apply a general nerf to emagged drones, right? Like thE PR was literally called a "Menu of Drone Nerfs", like a menu to pick from. As in... it wasn't to specifically do any one thing. It's not a binary state of "Everything" or "Nothing". It is... it is entirely possible to do ONE thing and not the other thens based on feedback given from other people looking at your PR. You can order just ONE item from a menu, you don;t need to order the entire thing. It's not like adding a feature, where you either add it or do not add it. This is a balance change. There's a LOT of numbers to tweak. You could add the 5 minute timer in isolation, or do one of the other nerfs first an then see how that effects balance before proceeding further with further changes if it proves necessary. A Suggestion can be options. They are suggested alternatives to what is being proposed in the present state. This entire suggestions sub-forum is to suggest options and ideas for code-savvy people to jump if they so choose. I... I don't understand where this binary thinking of "You either leave it alone or do five different changes in one PR" thinking is coming from, man, I need help here.
  15. It was always an option, there were a ton of suggestions when that PR was active and relevant. Most of those suggestions were not taken and the one that WAS taken, the 5 minute lifetime, ignored the critical second half of that suggestion, that the 5 minute duration would be enacted to the exclusion of the other nerfs. Instead it was rolled into the other existing ones, and followed up with a PR that made E-magged drones very very obvious, by giving them red eyes. So, another nerf on top of already game-changing nerfs before they had even settled. (Red-eye PR may actually have preceded the nerf PR, I cannot recall which came first.) Going back in time to change it is not an option. Acknowledging it was handled horribly during the affair so that it can be avoided going forward, is, however, very much an option. The key problem here is how many nerfs were made, massive balance changes, done in so short an order with little to no time for consideration or seeing what was necessary. It would not have killed people to take it slow, nor would it kill them going forward. Baby steps are better then yanking out 4 things at one time, because then if things go south, you have no idea which one of those things was the problem and which one was the vital component that made it all work. To draw a parallel, Fox recently added the Gloves of the North Star, letting them work with Hulk. He did this because he was already working on refactoring our Hulk code to be generally better all around, and when that refactor was done, the gloves would no longer work with Hulk. The consequence: This meant for a while Hulk + North Star was broken. You could kill people from 100 to dead in sub 3 seconds. It was timed. This was objectively broken more then Emagged drones ever could be. But it was a process that had time taken on it, because the end result was healthier for the game. What happened here was instead of each nerf being it's own PR, or each step taken bit by bit to get things done properly, overtime. Instead of asking people to live with it a little bit (They'd been just fine with it up to then, it wouldn't kill them to take it at a slower, deliberate pace), it was all lumped into one PR and jammed out of the gate as fast as possible, to the dismissal of everyone that was arguing it was going too far. This is the core problem. Not that it was nerfed, that it was nerfed too much and done so faster then any other PR, most other PR's get chided and finger wagged at for trying to jam through multiple major changes with that kind of speed, this one should have been no different but for some reason was.