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Norwest last won the day on September 21

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  1. Hello, everyone. Since becoming an admin I've run various events of different scales, and I'd like to hear the perspectives and opinions of the people involved. If you have any feedback, comments, or suggestions (or want to suggest a new event), lemme know below. Large-scale events: (major, round-spanning events which end up dominating the round) 1. "CentComm Defectors:" 2. "Space Pirates:" Medium-scale events (large events which have an impact on the round, but don't completely take it over): 1. "Colossal Missionary:" 2. "Masked Killer:" Small-scale events (i.e. events that shouldn't heavily interfere with the major events of the round): 1. "Judgmental Mime:" 2. "Lost 'Borg:" Will add other events as they pop up. Feel free to chip in with your own experiences or suggestions, though!
  2. I'm a longtime Seccie myself, and I'd have to agree with many of the earlier issues raised in this thread. More to the point, I'd argue that quite a few of them are closely connected: -The learning cliff: Security is an extremely difficult job to learn, requiring both robustness and knowledge of station SOP, server rules, and a thick enough skin to survive a storm of criticism. -Actual shitsec: While often just undeserved whining, much of that criticism is actually quite fair. I've seen prisoners left in cuffs for 15-20 minutes in Processing, utterly ridiculous criminal records placed (a 15-minute charge for just "resisting arrest," lol), and more undeserved harmbatoning than I can count at this point. -Poor oversight: Between the HoS, Warden, IAA, Magistrate, and Captain, there should be enough on-station personnel to correct bad behavior. I'd argue that much of the problem preventing that from happening is simply being overwhelmed: the HoS is desperately trying to keep a semblance of order, the Warden's watching over officers in the field, and every officer is desperately needed to fight the baddie of the week NOWNOWNOW. This leaves the IA agents and Magistrate with little to do, and when coupled with the high requirements for Magistrate and low job options for IAA, results in the positions usually being undermanned. This, of course, then worsens the problem of "bad apple" officers in the first place. -Staffing: All of the above, coupled with the reasonable likelihood of dying to valid-salad, makes Security a chronically understaffed force. Any measure to address Sec's issues must mention its horrible, horrible staffing problem, because everything else is secondary to it. No one's got time or energy to train newbies when they're constantly running after the next threat, and no one's got time to process prisoners properly when there's an officer down in Med-Sci Maint yada yada yada. And when there's no "low-speed" Security role, no one signs up for the job if they want a slower shift; it's either ASS TO THE GRASS BALLS TO THE WALL HARMBATON IN FREEFALL YEEHAW or it's playing Janitor instead. Note that this is a well-known real life phenomenon, often called a "staffing crunch:" with too few staff members on a job, pressure and requirements increase on the remaining ones, increasing their stress and causing them to quit (further worsening the staffing problem). Poor staffing is the heart of Security's woes; we can put patches over other issues, but none of them will stick unless we can ensure that there'll be more than just the Detective and Warden at roundstart. The term I've heard in RL law enforcement is "paradoxical policing," where inot only are there too few cops, the ones that remain are tired, burned out, and angry - and it shows. Conclusion: Recruitment&Retention is the key, everything else is secondary. I'd love to see a lot of the ideas in this thread implemented, from 'slings getting another rework to additional Code Red access, but ultimately the biggest problem with Sec is simply that there aren't enough of them around. Any suggestions for fixing Security's issues should focus primarily on getting more people to stay in the job. Issues and potential solutions: It's very, very difficult for even an experienced player to transition into playing Security. Others in this thread have already covered most of the reasons why, so I'm going to cover some of the issues inherent in resolving the problem and my proposals for addressing 'em: a) Hostile learning environment vs. protecting the "learner" role: Unsurprisingly, no one in red catches a break. I think there's simply no substitute for a "learner" Security role, a la the cadets that Kyet proposed earlier (personally, I'd go with "Constable" myself to avoid too much newbie stigma; I personally wouldn't mind playing a low-speed Sec role sometime). To separate cadets/Constables from the rest of Security's valid-salad, I'd suggest trying to draw a divide between them and the rest of Sec. Keeping other Sec roles more exclusive could be done with either a minimal karma-lock on Security roles (5 points to unlock "Security roles," a.k.a. the Brig Physician, Sec Officer, Warden, and HoS), or simply requiring a bunch of playtime (6+ hrs) in the "learner" role before being able to play as a Sec Officer. Combine this divide with limited equipment for cadets/Constables, restrictive instructions, and a limited degree of social protection. We can't entirely stop the low-speed Sec role from being a loot pinata, because they'll still need Brig/Holding Cell access and Security comms to do their job. However, limiting their equipment to less-effective tools like flashes and pepperspray a) forces them to actually use that gear, instead of relying solely on the holy harmbaton, b) limits their ability to get rekt by their own weapons used against them by greytiders, and c) makes them less attractive as a target. Similarly, the starting instructions (and hopefully over time, the basic standard and expectation) should tell cadets/Constables to remain in public areas and to not go patrolling off alone. There's no guarantee that they'll follow it, but it should keep at least some newbies on the straight and narrow. And finally, this divide between "always legit" Security targets and "try not to kill/humiliate" newbie role can be enforced through social interaction. Public shaming for antags, or even greytiders, who deliberately dunk on newbie Seccies can limit some bad behavior, especially if there's a clear divide between who's obvious valid-salad and who isn't. b) Lack of connection vs. a physical presence: One common problem with Sec roles is that there's no 'belonging' to the rest of the station. You've got antags to fight and greytiders to bash, and there's very little interaction between you and other departments. Even within Security itself, there's very little face-to-face time outside of hanging around in Processing at the same time, and the constant barrage of trouble on the radio means that there's very little of the team-building off-topic conversations which are so common in other departments. This worsens the issue of poor communication between Security and the rest of the station, increasing the divide and allowing for an easy bandwagoning of "shitcurity!" calls, whether deserved or undeserved, which make people that much less likely to play Sec again. I'd like to suggest departmental offices if feasible, the standard 3x3 (or 2x3 in a pinch) cubicles that come with basic ID access and departmental radio encryption. I'd suggest that cadets/Constables spawn at these offices right at roundstart, and serve as their public face of Security to different departments; I imagine this'd provide a more supportive environment for someone to learn the job, and would in turn provide that department with a tangible Security presence. Having a department to guard and a little Security checkpoint office to call their own would help make the role more than just a "learner" one. Security's currently responsible for the entire station at all times, which in practice means that you're running around pissing on brushfires here, there, and everywhere. Having a single department to guard and a small group to watch over would let someone play Security in a relaxed manner, only dipping their toes into the regular chaos when they felt like it. c) Lack of education vs. having a designated teacher: I've seen someone previously suggest a "Security Instructor" role, which was shot down on the basis of "experienced Seccies can teach newbies already." Without getting too confrontational, lemme put it like this: I've played an absurd amount of time on Paradise, let alone other SS13 servers, and in all that time I've seen a 'Sec training exercise' happen exactly once. On extended. That was it. Barring extended all day erryday, we need a framework of regular newbie education. Relying on charity, on someone experienced having the means, motive, and opportunity to take newbies under their wing during a busy shift, is not a viable solution. The poor staffing problem is the root cause of Security's issues, and lack of help for newcomers in the role is a significant contributor to the issue. Other players can certainly contribute, but we need someone whose role is focused primarily around education, to teach newbie Seccies everything from prisoner processing to shooting, and who won't bin all that teaching the moment a 'ling pops up in Sci Maint. I think the previous "Security Instructor" role addressed it handily, and I'd suggest a separate radio channel for "cadets/Constables" to give them space to ask dumb questions like "how do I use a flash anyway?" The obvious response to the concept of a separate radio channel would be "just use mhelp," but as an admin with access to the mentor channel, I can definitively say that they don't. People often just won't ask for help without some prompting ("hey, I saw that scuffle over in Processing, lemme show you how to take cuffs off a prisoner safely"), and other people just won't offer it without a little push. The "Sec Instructor" role is meant to provide that push, because when you log in to that job, you know that you'll need to step up to the plate to help teach newbies. This doesn't stop other Sec players from helping instruct newbies; matter of fact, I'd argue it would make them more likely to do so. It's the basic "bandwagoning" effect in action, where one person setting an example encourages others to join in. The goal here should be to prompt people towards better behavior, to give them that initial push, and to let them carry it the rest of the way. Tl;dr version: I could go on for ages about stuff I'd like to see implemented: additional minor antags like smugglers or drug dealers to add some early-round shenanigans, renovating IA so that people actually want to play the role, improving antag gameplay so that they have greater freedom to act and are rewarded for interesting or exciting acts of villainy, etc. However, none of those things deal with the basic issue of Security staffing, and there's no point in trying to add new antagonists or tweaking high-level gameplay if we don't address the more basic, fundamental problem of "people just don't play Sec." I've seen a lot of proposals to reform Security in the past, and I've thought a lot of them had merit myself. They were almost universally shot down, primarily by admins and coders; in my *ahem* years playing on Paradise, I haven't seen Security itself change. I have seen admin policy towards antagonists and on-station troublemakers get more restrictive, however, and much of that is due simply to Sec's inability to handle anything significant. As @Ping mentioned on the first page, there's an expectation of peace and order on-station, which Security simply isn't able to fulfill. The current system just isn't working, and our piecemeal efforts to address it aren't fixing the fundamental problem. Unless we make a 180 on the idea of station chaos tomorrow, we'll need a larger Security force to maintain order. No matter whether we adopt a "newbie Seccie" role or not, we need to change things up, because the current system isn't functioning reliably. I've seen frequent suggestions made on the forums about antags being too restrictive* and Security being constantly understaffed; once again, everything comes back to Security staffing. Threads like this or this are symptomatic of the larger problem we have downstream of Security's ineffectiveness, not to mention the perfectly valid complaints about Sec misbehavior and general shitcurity-ing. I'd like to think that my proposals above would address a good deal of the "learning cliff" problem, and I'm open to suggestions and trying something entirely different. Ultimately, though, I really don't want us to put our collective heads in the sand, and pretend that the problem can be resolved with a few tweaks - or that it can't be addressed at all. This is a major issue, and adequately addressing it will require a major rework. *Honestly, even as an admin myself, I've disabled most antag roles rather than play them due to being too restrictive. Having to look over my shoulder before doing anything is way too much of a hassle.
  3. I really like this idea, all in all. It lets secborgs stay relevant against biohazards, while still subjecting them to significant penalties ("1 hand+0 backpacks" vs. "2 hands+backpack o'guns") that allow organics to remain important too. (as an aside, when playing Secborg against blobs/xenos/terrors, I find it's almost a relief to finally die. Whaling on some isolated bit of blob for ages, with literally nothing more than a harmbaton to hurt the thing, is all kinds of no-fun)
  4. I'm a fan. Count me as a yes, please.
  5. I really do like the idea of a "Security Instructor" on the whole, and I think you've put a lot of good work and effort into the concept. I hope this does get adopted in the future, and I hope you don't give up on it yet.
  6. I'd personally recommend the 1980s-copper look, in order to encourage approachability. The student-instructor relationship is a key element of successful education, and while making a Drill Instructor (DI) as the teacher might make for some decent Full Metal Jacket parodies, it also actively discourages new Sec Officers from seeking out help. Meanwhile, the "grumpy-but-approachable old vet" is a timeless and tireless archetype, and would help improve the students' confidence to speak up in the first place.
  7. I'd also like to expand on the question of the motivations underlying the PR. To quote the rationale given: "Pulls back some of medical's powercreep." ...Medbay. Powercreep. Um. Gents, you are aware that the Science department is A Thing, yes? I'm aware that this doesn't obviate minor powercreep on Medbay's part, but from an outsider's perspective, it seems absurd that you'd focus on cutting Medbay down to size when their next-door neighbors combine ludicrous firepower with negligent responsibility. Even in Medbay itself, Virology is a far worse culprit with regards to overpowering capability than sleeper pods (put three viruses of Toxic Filter/Toxic Comp together, give one of the viruses Self-Respiration, and you can go for a spacewalk in your skivvies). The rationale given is obviously a bit short, so do note that I'm not getting their explanation in detail. That being said, I would urge the PR's proponents to consider what sort of gameplay you're trying to create by making Medical more difficult to get into, because I see this as generally unhelpful to the cause of making Medbay a decent place to work. I'm guessing that this PR is meant to "make injury more meaningful," in line with the other stated motivation of "making death more meaningful," but if so, then I'd like to offer some advice on the subject: In real-life hospital care, death is pretty easy. Resuscitation (the process of trying to save someone) is labor-intensive and effortful, sure, but once they're dead, things get much simpler. There's no 1:1 care with RT (Respiratory Therapist) hovering over their ventilator, there's no wrangling an ICU bed and getting the trainwreck-patient transformed into someone else's problem, no nothin'. You clean up the room, call in the family if they're around, call the morgue, and hey presto you're off to the races paperwork. If you want to make injury meaningful and limit Medbay's capabilities, then I'd recommend focusing on disability. As it stands, medical care in SS13 can rapidly restore someone to 100% in no time flat; if you want to make people more hesitant of getting horribly injured, then include possibilities for long-term harm which can't be easily cured. Add more long-term diminished capability (even if surgically repaired, a broken leg could mean a 15-minute mobility reduction, or a broken arm could mean occasionally dropping items), make sepsis be an issue for regular wounds rather than just during surgery, add a longer recovery time for pharmaceutical organ treatment (i.e. mannitol and mitocholide will need some time to work if taken in pill form), have severe injury reduce the subject's maximum health, and so on. No matter what element of Medbay we're talking about, if your goal is to make injury a scary thing that people want to avoid, I would recommend focusing on the end product rather than the in-between - in other words, consider making someone leave Medbay at 90% rather than on tossing a few more roadblocks onto Medbay itself. Concurrently, I'd suggest soliciting more suggestions for changes from the community itself. If you want more community buy-in, just state your intentions in detail ("I want to make [X], because [Y], and I'm currently thinking of doing it through [Z]. What are your thoughts?") and field some questions and comments from the players. A couple test-merges, along with explicitly looking for feedback from the start, would avoid much of the criticisms and similar messes that this PR has generated.
  8. I am a bit leery about these nerfs as they relate to newbie doctors. A mild passive heal doesn't mean much alongside an amazing "mito-manni-cryo" mix, but it does matter significantly when someone who's trying out Medbay for the first time tries tossing someone into a pod without first loading them up. Similarly, I feel like the sleeper nerf disproportionately affects newbie docs who don't have stacks of pills on their belts. Neither of these changes will make too big a difference for experienced MDs who can work their way around the changes, but they significantly complicate matters for people who are just starting out. Regarding implementation, I think the process was rushed without good reason. Compare this change, which AFAIK was merged practically overnight, with the multiple test-runs and rounds of feedback that preceded the Medbay and Security mapping changes. The map alterations didn't satisfy everyone's little desires - I shed a tear at this time for the eternally fax-less Coroner - but they resulted in effective, popular changes which actually gave people the things they wanted. Compared to those "gentle" approaches, this merge feels excessively rushed and poorly thought-out. Given the notably negative reaction it got on arrival, I would guess that the people who merged this did so rapidly with the expectation of pushback - a spessman fait accompli, as it were. I'm not going to pretend that I have any insider knowledge of forum or coder politics, and I'd urge everyone to take my assessment with a healthy grain of salt. That being said, I would ask the people pushing these changes to better outline exactly what they want. What events or situations gave the motivation for these changes? What sort of desired end-goal are they looking to achieve? What failure states are they trying to avoid? The current environment feels excessively antagonistic on both sides, and I'd like to encourage everyone to put a little more effort on cooperating.
  9. That's certainly a good point, but to be frank, I don't recall cloning being much fun for a newbie either. Surgery was the interesting and engaging thing for me when I was starting out in Medbay, because a) it required a significant number of actions, while b) the Operating Computer meant that I had a pretty good idea of what to do, and c) the patient was unconscious and therefore wasn't in a position to complain. Cloning has the issue of being pretty boring even for someone starting out ("put mans in cloner, press button, wait"), and I see the recent changes as being unhelpful in that regard, because they push attention away from the ORs. The key changes between a newbie and a veteran MD, in my opinion, is less about knowing esoteric knowledge and more about rapidly applying it. A newbie doc would be absolutely overwhelmed if left alone to handle an MCI, but frankly, they'd be overwhelmed with an MCI under any circumstances. Under more-routine circumstances, the older system of "defib, then clone" for newbies worked fine, and my proposed system would still allow for that to happen. There'd be more of a penalty to cloning, yes, but it'd still function as before. I envision cloning as the backup option, and I agree that we shouldn't remove it entirely. I like the idea of it serving as the last resort, and I believe that Clone Memory Disorder + a mechanical penalty wouldn't make it completely useless. IPCs can still function with 1.5x brute/burn damage, albeit with lots of salt about their EMP vulnerability in dchat, and my proposed changes would still allow for the cloner to function like it currently does otherwise. Newbie MDs would still be able to toss a dead character inside if defibrillation fails, and players would still be able to re-enter the round using it; the idea is to allow for a newbie to start there and to graduate up to knowing the different drugs, knowing how2SR, and so on.
  10. Thanks! I'll admit, I know very little about Botany, but making SR dependent on their help seems like a decent compromise. That way, even if all the Botanists are traitors/incompetent/dead, the Garden, Permabrig, and R&D all provide backup options for growing plants in a pinch. My reasoning with regards to increasing decay speed is because it can be halted completely with formaldehyde. That would provide a sense of urgency, since there's a looming penalty for not getting SR'd or hit with formaldehyde, and would require Medbay to practice triage. MCI (Multiple-Casualty Incident) triage, a.k.a. "walk through the car wreck and pick out the survivors," is pretty fulfilling work in my opinion, so I think it's something I'd like to see implemented in some manner. Defibs provide that to some degree, but with a greater reliance on SR over the cloner, I'd like to see SR have some form of "temporal urgency" (a time limit) which forces the triaging MD to be on the ball. And of course, if all else fails, there's still the microwave cloner to let dead people get back into the round eventually. While defibs already have downsides, I'm sure you'd agree that brain damage is extremely easy to fix. I'd like to add an element of suspense and danger to the defibrillator, so that the success stories are that much more meaningful - there should be a reasonable chance of failure, even if it's something that a competent player can manage without too much difficulty under normal circumstances. Defibs inflicting a harmful-but-manageable amount of cardiac damage would ideally provide some risk without keeping people from using them. After all, a 10u mitocholide pill can patch up cardiac damage, as can efficient task-prioritization like "patching up the heart along with the patient's fractured chest" that experienced MDs already do. I'm open to discussion here, of course, but I do think there should be some form of failure-state in order to heighten the successes.
  11. I'm linking my effortpost on the topic from the 'Community Poll - Medbay Changes' thread, since it seems applicable here.
  12. Introduction: Let me tell the story of a round I played earlier today: The station is full up on jobs, >80 players. Every single Medbay role is filled to capacity...except for Doctors. Previously, there'd be up to five MDs on the manifest, with at least one or two bouncing around the Medbay at any given time. Yet in a round absolutely stuffed with players, with everything from Chemistry to the Coroner all staffed up properly, only two people even bothered to play MD. Needless to say, both of them are nowhere to be found. Two large bombs go off, in the middle of the station. Casualties are everywhere. Of course, between fastmos and the explosions themselves, it's >2 minutes by the time the bodies are brought to Medbay. None of them are revivable. Previously, MDs would receive them and begin the difficult and dangerous job of trying to SR and revive these players. Instead, they're all dumped at the Cloner like a stack of logs, where a Chemist and the CMO take turns shoving each corpse through like it's a microwave. Cloning was jam-packed, and both surgical theaters were literally spotless. I have a very, very hard time imagining the ORs being clean back when they were still relevant...but when no one's revivable, who needs 'em? This same pattern has repeated itself almost every single round that I've played during the recent changes, with only slight variations in each one. Reviving and Strange Reagent made for interesting, suspenseful resuscitation efforts, where you had to repeatedly zap someone to keep their heart afloat, do surgery to patch up their many injuries, transfuse to keep them from bleeding out again, clean as much as possible to prevent infection, etc etc etc. The new changes make Medbay - even worse, death itself - downright boring. The problems: Speaking as a real-life RN, the old approach of suspenseful, high-acuity action alongside regular, low-acuity fractures or cloning made for surprisingly on-point gameplay. The actual practice involved in treating someone is surprisingly simple most of the time; the issue in RL care is not some Dr. House-esque mystery solving and much more a question of efficiently managing resources. The new medical system, though, is less like working at a trauma center and more like working at a community health clinic (where I've seen nurses downright panic over epistaxis, a.k.a. "a nosebleed"). To try and summarize the basic issues in play: 1. Predictability: Past the two-minute mark, it's over. Boom. Done. Minimize the game and go do your laundry. Needless to say, this does not make for an interesting and engaging experience. There's no question of whether you'll get found in time, because you never get recovered in time for a defib anymore. There's no question of whether or not a competent MD will hit you with SR, because all they can do is to pop you into the cloner like a Hot Pocket and wait for it to finish cooking. Death has become boring; it's now just a question of twiddling your thumbs and watching something on YouTube until the metaphorical microwave has done its work. 2. Lack of human agency: If your corpse gets recovered, you'll likely get cloned eventually. There's nothing anyone can do to speed it up beyond the basic R&D upgrades, which means that there's no point in having anyone competent in Medbay; even the best players can't do anything more than wait for the magic cloning pod to churn through the corpses. Medbay could be crewed by the A-team or a pack of dribbling incompetents, and it has little impact (if any) on patient outcomes. 3. No effect past Medbay itself: Cloning has some new temporary downsides, but those are easily fixed with a trip in the cryopod or a bit of mutadone. It may mean more time spent twiddling your thumbs (yay, such fun, much excite), but once you've done a little more time in the cryopod then you're in the clear. The new death system means more time spent being dead, but it means literally nothing once you're alive again. 4. Lack of alternate playstyles: I've had quite a few games where some whiz-bang MD patched me up in the SS13 equivalent of a back-alley medbay. Rare, to be sure, but being revived even when the original Medbay was a flaming crater made for an interesting round that I can still recall today. The current system prevents all that, because without the cloner or getting really lucky with a defib, you're basically toast. Whoo-wee, such fun, much excite. Personal aims: I'm looking to effectively reverse these four factors. To elaborate a little on what I'd like to see: 1. Unpredictability: I don't want death to be the same thing every time. Maybe I'll get found, defibbed, and get back on my feet in no time. Maybe I'll get patched up in a cave by a guy with a box of scraps. Maybe Malpracticebay is in full effect, and the best I can hope for is to get cloned. Maybe, maybe, maybe. 2. Human agency: In keeping with the above, I want a good Medbay to be able to save lives like there's no tomorrow. Sure, make SR expensive and difficult to acquire - that just means it's cooler when the Chemists are on-point and the stuff is available in spades. Make bodies rot sooner, forcing them to be quickly injected with formaldehyde in order to be saved, or put more restrictions on how it can be used...but leave the option open. It makes for much more suspenseful, interesting, and compelling gameplay when things could happen. I don't mind failure, but I want there to be a chance of success in the first place, because having an alternative to failure makes it that much more poignant and interesting. 3. Long-term effects: To put it bluntly, I want the cloning pod to be the failure-state. I want people to hate being cloned, and the easiest way I can see that happening is to put some sort of un-fixable, long-term penalty to being cloned. Having some sort of unsolvable penalty counterbalances the ease of the cloner: it can still be the simple answer, but it's also not the one which people should want to take. The possibility of a full recovery would leave an incentive for good doctors to go through the effort of patching every boo-boo and fixing every wound (and for players to sit around in their broken bodies long enough for docs to fix them), whereas the cloner would still be a potential, if undesirable, option for people to re-enter the round. More on this below. 4. Allowing alternate playstyles: I'd like to give more options for fixing people, rather than a "one-and-done" approach. Maybe Genetics has a a power which prolongs defibrillation time with few downsides; the issue then becomes one of effectively spreading that same power stationwide, or at least to the most at-risk individuals (i.e. resource management). Maybe Medbay is reliant instead on the Coroner or a similar triage person during an MCI (Multiple Casualty Incident), with them running around and moving defib-able people to the cryopod area while injecting the long-term cases with formaldehyde before they start to decompose. Maybe transplantation would remove the cloning penalty, allowing for someone who'd been cloned by MD-McDumbass to get fixed if there were other MDs and Genetics on the ball that round. Overall, though, I'd like to see the game mechanics encouraging more options rather than simply railroading everyone towards the magic cloning microwave. Suggestions: A. The defibrillator issue: -Slightly increase defib times. IIRC the old defib-capable times were up to five minutes, while the current number is two. The current number is far too small, given that defibrillators are rarely ever used in the field; unless you die inside the Medbay itself or near a mediborg, there's no saving you. I'd suggest moving it back to five minutes, to be counterbalanced with a significant penalty (see below). If you're dead-set on reducing defib times, though, then please at least split the difference and make it 3.5 minutes instead of the current "flash in the pan." -Increased defibrillator times could be counterbalanced by having defibrillation inflict severe damage on the heart like it does IRL. This would require doctors to be careful and sparing about their defib use, and make it a gamble every time you place the paddles. Inflicting variable 10-35 heart damage per shock would allow someone to survive a single defib at a bare minimum, but would make multiple uses of the defibrillator a very dangerous game (i.e. suspenseful). Heart damage requires either chest surgery or mitocholide to fix, so either Chemistry or an MD being on the ball would be able to fix the damage. This'd add additional uncertainty due to the ever-present question of player competence, and would allow for meaningful success-stories to happen, such as "a competent Chemist saves patients from a defib-happy MD's mistakes" or vice versa. B. Strange Reagent: I'd suggest limiting SR through: -Requiring a higher dose and/or more exotic materials. Space fungus might be a good 'un, or diamond, or some similarly hard-to-acquire substance. The goal here should be to make SR achieveable to make, but only by someone who knows what the hell they're doing. Alternatively, it could require help from another department, such as needing a high power draw from Engineering, ambrosia gaia or a similar higher-level plant from Botany, or upgraded parts from Science. -Shortening the time available before a body begins decaying. I'm not sure how long the current time is until bodies start decaying, but the first stage (i.e. "They are beginning to smell") is the cutoff point for SR. If you shorten that time down, then formaldehyde and good corpse-triage becomes vital to saving them. In other words, something like this. -I think the current system of "SR revives with brain/genetics" damage is good enough as-is. It allows for revives in the field, but inflicts a serious penalty if you lack access to a cryotube, and also requires that the field medic have remembered to pack along some mannitol as well. C. Cloning: As mentioned, I'd like cloning to be the "failure-state" of Medbay. People should have a real, lasting reason to not want to be cloned, and I'd suggest the following mechanisms for doing so: -Implementing Clone Memory Disorder (CMD) for an in-character penalty. A rule like "you aren't able to remember anything that happened for the past thirty minutes" would allow for some interesting RP opportunities for anyone who's so inclined, and also keep people from being able to easily nail their killers. After all, if someone starts yelling "JOE IS A 'CLING!" the moment they pop out of the cloner, that's fairly bwoinkable. There won't be 100% compliance, and the initial implementation will be patchy as usual, but having some IC penalty for getting cloned should make RP-heavy, powergamey-light players want to avoid it. If possible, I'd like to also include some mention of "You will only be able to retrieve these memories with heavy counseling" or the like, to provide people with an IC reward for visiting the Psychiatrist. Basically, if you sit down and RP out talking through "shit I'm a clone, what happened back there," you can circumvent the penalty (and ID your killer). This should hopefully make the Psychiatrist a little more relevant, while also allowing for a method of dealing with the penalty providing the player is willing to put in enough effort. -Implement some sort of [was cloned] penalty tag for anyone whose body was cloned. This would have a significant mechanical drawback which cannot be easily removed (that part is key). Options here include a brute/burn damage multiplier like IPCs, decreased maximum health, or a similar significant mechanical disadvantage. The goal here is to provide a penalty which even the powergamey-est of players would have to sit up and pay attention to; even if you don't give a shit about CMD, the mechanical cloning penalty would still make you sit up and pay attention. This could then be circumvented by brain transplantation into a humanized monkey (which would require both Genetics and an MD to be on the ball), or a similarly-circuitous method for anyone who really wants to get around it. -I don't mind autoprocessing and autocloning, and I'd suggest keeping it in light of the above penalties. This would make prescanning a gamble: do you hope that your body gets found, or do you just say "screw it" and hop into the cloner, hoping that you can find a competent Geneticist and MD to help you out on the other side? (or will you be too busy once cloned, and have to just deal with the penalty anyway?) Conclusion: Thank you to whoever took the time to read all this, and I hope this provides some decent food for thought. I agree that the previous Medbay system was definitely flawed in some respects, but I don't this approach is a positive one to fixing it. In lieu of the current changes, I'd like to provide labor-intensive methods to circumvent death, and to make cloning a last-resort option which no one wants to have happen. If you have any questions or comments about my proposal, feel free to make 'em.
  13. To try and summarize the issues you're bringing up: 1. Limited supply of minerals. 2. Departmental Protolathes will still be dependent on Research doing their job. 3. Scientists are sometimes at the R&D desk to handle requests. To respond to each of these in turn: 1. I'm not sure what evidence you're basing a lack of resources on, because the only times I've seen a sustained lack of resources is when Mining has had multiple traitors or been completely incompetent. Those incidents are functionally irrelevant to the question of an ore silo, because the issue is upstream of ore distribution. Miners usually end up goofing around on-station with teleportation jaunters or oodles of minebots by the 1-hour mark, because they've so oversupplied the ORM that there's more resources than the station could use. The paradigm of mining supply is "feast or famine:" either the Miners are somewhat competent and rapidly stock the ORM with gobs of resources, or they're terrible for some reason or another and provide nothing. In both cases, distribution is not an issue. Even assuming that mining stocks were depleted, that logically implies that nearly everyone is getting the kit they needed. That's hardly a problem, is it? 2. Yes, I agree that departmental Protolathes will still require Research to do their job. I thought that was the idea, no? Aren't we supposed to be encouraging inter-departmental cooperation and the like? 3. Yes, Scientists are sometimes at the R&D desk. Believe me, they aren't there for all two hours of the shift. Even if someone had the stamina to sit through two hours in a crowded room, they'd be swarmed by oodles of requests - the Janitor wants a floor buffer, Medbay wants IMSes, Engineering wants loaded RPEDs - which are draining and largely un-rewarding to deal with. Why go through the effort of making someone have to do a deliberately-terrible job when you could just make department-specific Protolathes to take the bulk of the work off of them? Logically speaking, having departmental Protolathes would eliminate the regular requests like the ones mentioned above, and cut things down to either greytiders or someone with a very unusual request (an Engineer looking for a crew monitor, for instance). That means many fewer yells of "; SCIENTIST TO R&D I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR TEN MINUTES DAMNIT," and less-frustrating gameplay for everyone involved. I still don't really see where the issue is here.
  14. ^This. The problem with Science as it stands is twofold: 1) Science only has a single, easy job to do, and 2) That job is utterly awful. R&D itself is a sad joke, and the actual work involved is completed in no time (there's quite literally a guide titled "R&D In Ten Minutes Or Less" on the forum). The hard part is implementing upgrades, and once you've upgraded the departmental machines, Science's job for the rest of the round is Retail In Space. You sit at the front window, waiting for people to show up, and give 'em what they ask for. You get yelled at for not doing the job, yelled at for giving out the wrong kit to the wrong people, yelled at for being too slow, for using too many resources, etc etc etc. None of that is a recipe for fun, engaging gameplay. It should therefore come as no surprise that Scientists skive off their actual job in favor of dicking around with pointless-but-fun side jobs like Toxins, telescience, or just placing bluespace tiles across the entire station. When your actual, assigned job is such a downer, and when you've got oodles of tools at your disposal, it's understandable that Scientists would ignore Retail In Space in favor of making fartonium. Adding departmental Protolathes wouldn't resolve the issue of R&D being stupidly easy, but it would at least address the issue of Scientists having to man the front desk (and by extension, improve Science's reputation across the station). If I could wave my magic coding-wand, I'd like to see the whole research process overhauled, so that different areas of R&D actually contribute to the station as a whole. I'd argue that much of the poor perception of Scientists and Research as a department is that they simply don't have anything to do beyond answering the front desk and upgrading other departments' machines. I'd like to see Toxins, the EXPERIMENTOR, Xenobio, and Sci-Chem actually meaningfully contribute to research in some way. As with the departmental 'lathes, I think /tg/'s setup is a pretty good model to follow. Still, just having a better system for distributing advanced gear would be a hell of a step forward. I can think of multiple alternate avenues for creating R&D besides that, and under the current conditions, I have every incentive to try one or more of them. Think of this as like dealing with the IRL illegal drug economy: trying to reduce the supply is difficult, because people are creative as all hell and will come up with many different routes around whatever impediments you place. Simply legislating "Don't Do R&D" is much like going "Don't Do Drugs," and I imagine most of us are old enough to remember how badly D.A.R.E. failed. You're better off trying to reduce the demand, via providing other departments with a legal means to acquire the gear they need. The departmental Protolathes and ore silo would largely resolve the need for another department to build their own Protolathe in the first place.
  15. I was HoS that round, and yeah, I think I know the person you're talking about. It's a good thing the rest of the team was so competent, because he and one other officer Very, uh, new.