Benjaminfallout

Why is there so much hate towards Paradise station?

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On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 11:32 AM, Benjaminfallout said:

I've seen a lot of awful thing being said about it since I started playing, even being called a fetish server at one point. I'm just confused that in such a tiny community we want to fight and say terrible things about each other.

As I have spent the better half of my 10 years being a internet barbarian with the same tribe that would shout said obscenities, I have a somewhat unique perspective. Most people who I know who set out like Orkz in 40k through cyberspace, are in it for a good trash fire and a long, hard fight. This isn't to say that they don't have legit grievances with you, or vice versa, you probably both do. The difference is they enjoy the fight too. I do not know them per se, and they don't really know me, if you catch my drift, but I know what the old hive mind happens to say and feel the tug myself.

If I were to summarize, the main complaints obviously come from the

  1. Furry Aspect
  2. Some of the Rules and Regulations (far reaching).

Firstly, Paradise did not bother me when I first joined, specifically because ERP is forbidden, and in this regard, I have always felt that it holds more true that the species feel like aliens more than Yiffers. Because of this as well and distinct lack of flaunting a perceived stereotype, but rather, acting relatively normal, this complaint seemed dubious. But I can understand where they come from, as like it or not Furries have a reputation, and all reputations are earned, whether fairly or un-fairly. Paradise, in my opinion, works to dispel that reputation and for this reason I could care less about it in the grander scheme of things.

Secondly, many of the servers rules are far reaching and can construe much into "murderboning" or "griefing", and if there's one thing we barbarians hate, its the fun police interfering in a game. Don't get me wrong, often times we'll deliberately flirt the line or outright do it for a good time. The justification is, "but come on, didn't you see what I accomplished?" and I like the answer personally, because all to often, the wanton destruction is truly a sight worthy of the title "dumpster fire" and results in laughter if recorded for years to come. Likewise, I understand that without rules, SS13, would not be SS13, and thus I believe its a delicate give and take. For a barbarian, this is a tough adjustment, as you are used to answering only to others who you believe you have honorable duties towards, and yourself. I have heard many complaints about the Karma System, but this I attribute solely to the fact that like me starting out, they expect to be rewarded for a different behavior in a different culture. Likewise netcode is brought up but whether there's merit to that or not who knows.

I have pillaged my way across FPS's and RTS's and everything in between and I cherished every second I can remember, but Paradise is actually so chill I'd say it's mellowed me out, and I've come to enjoy the more personal side of the internet again. Something I have not done outside my small inner circle for a decade.

In conclusion, (using me as a personal example) I think if people tried Paradise Station in what I will refer to as, "good faith", they'd find it's actually a pretty chill place, and you guys are pretty cool.

Edited by Fritz

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One thing that I've seen Para do that might gather hate is they're pretty easy on Cliques, groups of people from 3 to 4 who OOC stick together IC and that leads to havoc, if you mess with them, all 3 gang up on you and make your shifts hell, and it seems they get away with it quite easily, so I'd say that's a major reason there's some hate towards Para, if definitely makes me upset.

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Cliques are something we've been handling for years.

If they're greytiding or breaking one of the server rules, adminhelp it and we'll be glad to look into it.

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44 minutes ago, Spacemanspark said:

Cliques are something we've been handling for years.

If they're greytiding or breaking one of the server rules, adminhelp it and we'll be glad to look into it.

After getting beat up by some greytiding metaclique's twice I was simply told to take it to the forums, so I've given up at this point.

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An interesting point I've seen being posted on the internet is that Paradise doesn't release significantly many new updates anymore and I think there's some truth to that. Since playing on Paradise station I haven't seen much new except a few new cosmetic items and a rework of some parts of the station. Another issue that I thing actually has quite a lot of merit is the grievance people have with admins, calling the game the "admins' playground".

Paradise station is advertised of being a "medium RP server" but many restrictions that admins come up with ultimately just enable people to be asshats or jerks and has the side-effect of locking people out of many RP opportunities. Many instances would have been more prudent to let the IAA and HoP handle or even telling the person that maybe he should just go back and apologize for being rude and request a borg again. Even worse; sometimes it results in removing powers from jobs such as not letting xenobiologists take advantage of the fact that their animals can act as independent agents. I think admins are too keen to intervene here to the detriment of the game.

The only time I can think of when I called an admin was when a ghost was harassing me and interfering with things I had to do at the station, otherwise I prefer to put the different departments at work. Paradise station is well fleshed out that every department can find something to do and you have somewhere to turn with your grievances unless the admins interfere and remove their opportunity to do their jobs, like how they tend to interfere with situations that would belong to the IAA to deal with. Admin intervention should be the last resort when none of the departments can actually deal with an issue or when a person clearly is breaking from their stated objectives, not the first place where people go to whine when things don't go their way and especially not when the admin's intervention clearly contradicts what we're being told is our goal in the game.

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On 5/28/2018 at 12:12 AM, Tomar_Brindsbane said:

An interesting point I've seen being posted on the internet is that Paradise doesn't release significantly many new updates anymore and I think there's some truth to that. Since playing on Paradise station I haven't seen much new except a few new cosmetic items and a rework of some parts of the station. Another issue that I thing actually has quite a lot of merit is the grievance people have with admins, calling the game the "admins' playground".

Paradise station is advertised of being a "medium RP server" but many restrictions that admins come up with ultimately just enable people to be asshats or jerks and has the side-effect of locking people out of many RP opportunities. 

From my own personal observation, Paradise seems to undergo regular updates. Changelog shows this. They not be the feature enhancing updates you might desire that you may get from other codes, but I think Paradise updates are significant enough when all added together and I find the Paradise server to be superior when it comes to quality of life improvements that I enjoy on this server, that aren't present on others. Particularly when it comes to control and movement. 

As for the hate that Paradise gets, well, kinda comes with the territory of being the most popular SS13 server with exception to Colonial Marines, of course. Top two rated arguments of 'Muh, Paradise Sucks' that I see is 'Furries' and 'Code', none of which is a solid foundation.

Edited by Xyd

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It's difficult to go into this without re-opening old wounds. Though as I've been part of this community for at least as long as some of the senior staff, I'll weigh in. Keep in mind that the vast majority of this is mixed conjecture and rumour I've collected and pieced together from my own recollection and from combing through reddit, so take nothing in here as 'proven' fact and don't quote me on this.

As far as I understand it, the main 'wave' of resentment towards Paradise occurred around 2015. The implementation of the Vulpkanin species was a part of it, but I think it was a mixture of several different factors at once--and more as a result of events outside the server than within it. It's difficult to discuss the major changes that 2015 brought to the SS13 community in a neutral, objective manner without coming across as bitter or trying to put my own subjective spin on the ordeal, but I do theorize that this is where it really erupted.

To understand this, we need to take a step back and consider where Paradise stood at that time. For most of 2013-2014, the most populated SS13 Medium-Roleplay server was a server called 'BestRP'. 'BestRP' was a fairly decent server initially hosted by a user named AbbyRiley. AbbyRiley was a bit of an absentee host. I was not privy to the specific details, but as far I've read, it seems that --while the admins were grateful for the hosting service, BestRP was suffering from an issue that plagues many SS13 servers: inconsistent admin behaviour. As this went on, a handful of BestRP's admins left and started up their own server, feeling that they could offer a better server if there was a greater consensus amongst their admins. This new server was the Paradise server.

Some time after this mitosis between BestRP and Paradise, hosting of BestRP was transferred from AbbyRiley to a new host going by the username of Purlek. I won't waste time digging up details, but essentially the common consensus was that Purlek was a horrid influence on BestRP--under his hosting, the BestRP server's community and quality declined dramatically. A number of fairly damning allegations emerged against Purlek, corroborated by his own admins. The server quality declined so much that eventually the tragically-named "BestRP" server was closed in 2014. The community of BestRP attempted to create a number of successor servers--the names 'Unbound Travels' and 'Phoenix' server come to mind. However, these successors seemed to have issues of their own and they too were closed.

The best analogy I can make here is that watching the decline of BestRP's community from 2014-2017 was like watching a compost bin flooding during a heavy rain, and seeing the maggots crawl out to avoid drowning. Unfortunately, Purlek's particular hosting direction meant that so many of BestRP's community members (at least, the ones who still remained on the server as it finally died) were not very nice players to share a server with. Without going into too much detail, I'd suggest that many of the erroneous accusations that the general SS13 community levels against the Paradise community would actually hold true if levelled against the late-stage BestRP community. Again, I will restate that the final deathgasp of the BestRP server took place from 2014-2015: the Vulpkanin species was added in 2015. There is nothing that implies that this was anything more than just an incredibly unlucky coincidence, but it was a coincidence that had some... negative short-term effects.

That time in 2015 was, to put it gently, a very unusual time for Paradise's community. I have no hard evidence to support this, but I believe that the addition of the Vulpkanin unwittingly served as a magnet to draw the worst members of BestRP's former community into Paradise. I will mention that I do not hold the addition of the Vulpkanin species as solely responsible for this: If various reddit threads are to be believed, Paradise was indeed the last successor of BestRP's legacy: The players from that community were going to show up here one way or another. Nevertheless, the Vulpkanin species ended getting caught up in the process. I recall there was a distinct stretch of time where almost all of the worst most abrasive and frustrating player behaviours within Paradise's community seemed to be caused by vulpkanin or tajaran characters. Highlights of this frustrating behaviour includes: a Tajaran HoP player who acted like a petulant little shit and would commit suicide the moment anyone tried to curb his behaviour (the character did this 3 times on different occasions before being banned for it, as I recall), a Vulpkanin Warden that would allow non-security Vulpkanin to hang out with him in his warden's office every single game, a singular incident where a number of vulpkanin and tajarans overhauled the vacant office into a nude bar (the admins swarmed it with hostile clown NPCs, at least), and a handful of vulpkanin and tajaran players with some of the most cringe-inducing overtly sexual flavor-texts I've seen (two or three of which I recognized from players that used to frequent BestRP station), nonantag vulpkanin cliques that continually attempted to shelter antag players if they were part of the clique, and a few vulpkanin players at that time all fit into a very specific personality archetype: Arrogant, entitled, and often holding an over-inflated opinion of their own competency. Not all problem players were vulpkanin players, but most of the vulpkanin players were problem players.

Generally, people were not happy. Some unkind words were said, some left, some joined, things started calming down. Unfortunately, just as it looked like things were going back to normal, a fairly talented griefer using the moniker of 'Philpurr' began a prolonged campaign of griefing Paradise--often using massed bombs to end a round and punctuating each bombing spree with several paragraphs of emetic drivel that I will not recite here. Fortunately BYOND implemented updates that made it considerably more tedious and time-consuming to evade bans, so Philpurr lost interest and left.

I will say that a lot of the internal issues that emerged in Paradise's community during that time in 2015 have simmered down over the last 3 years. Many of the new Vulpkanin players that caused issues in 2015 either got banned, left for furrier pastures, or have shaped up and became contributing community members--pretty sure one or two of them are staff members. It is not my place to judge whether the state of Paradise's community currently is better or worse than the community it had back before Vulpkanin were merged. Paradise's reputation, however, seems not to have shaken off the events of 2015 so easily. The Paradise of 2018 is definitely a long way away from the Paradise of 2015, but a lot of players haven't been able to let go of the resentment and frustration that caused them to leave in 2015, and that's the mental image they have branded into their memory whenever they speak about what it's like to play on Paradise. It might not be fair, but I understand it completely: There are certain servers that left me with such a bad aftertaste that I refuse to give them a second chance on the same principles.

Like I said earlier, I'm not sure if it's a good thing to be opening old wounds here. However, the way I see it: Every server has mistakes in its history, and unless we're willing to talk about it honestly without buttering it up then we don't learn anything from the shit we've been through and we don't move forward.

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