Shadeykins

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The main issue I see there is that processing takes so much time. It can take a good 5-10 minutes to properly question and discuss what happened with people, in which case their sentence is usually up.

The right to an actual process would be a huge time sink, and people already scream demands for a lawyer/trial over 5 minute sentences.

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I mean, it gives an actual purpose to law rather than simply having it be a purely black and white "This is to justify IC punishing traitors" since again, most of the crimes other than vandalism without express permission from admins are not allowed to be committed by anyone who isn't an antag even if in-character there was a clear thread of actions which lead to a reasonable situation where doing something of the sort would fit. Such as how there would never be an actual time when a riot or mutiny would take place without admins bwoinking everyone involved, since revolution is not in the circulation of the secret gamemodes. Or that people can't escalate a fight to the point of an attempted murder even if they were both agreeing to escalate it to that point IC.

It feels more like it's a 100% mechanical process, which begs the question, why should there be a defined law with any kind of details to it when in reality it is as simple as making the arrest and immediately sentencing, It just feels extremely "gamey" in nature (Yes, I understand this is a game, but the spirit of ss13 has always been a balance between the game mechanics and how people act as those characters) and because of this;

  • The Detective's role is redundant (which extends to the Forensic Technician), because evidence is practically useless. Regardless of evidence being taken and processed, the criminal is immediately thrown in a cell instantaneously and their time is added. On the rare occasion the Detective is actually useful is when an antag is a bald greytider who forgot to wear gloves/wore fingerless gloves before committing their crime, and even then that only serves to find the person, not actually to determine guilt. Any and all evidence is moot in the current system, the only thing that is accomplished is that, mechanically, items are taken away from the offender.
  • The Magistrate's role is severely crippled in it's stature and meaning. Instead of presiding over hearings and cases and making decisions based upon what can be presented to them, their entire existence is relegated to being asked, and answering the question of, "Can we kill this guy?" which, there are only two capital crimes, which are the only crimes which call for an execution anyway. The only reason a Magistrate would EVER say no is if there were some kind of doubt to the person's guilt. But given that the current system is as simple as immediately assuming that they are 100% guilty with no exceptions in any way, shape, or form it just becomes a situation of "Hey Magistrate, A killed B, Can we execute them?" And with absolutely no review of any kind of evidence on the Magistrate's part, they answer yes almost every single time because there is no incentive to weigh whether or not they should authorize it, unless they are going to randomly mix it up a bit by saying no instead just to keep the person alive in the round. Through all of this, It really doesn't justify the Magistrate being a role in the first place, especially a Karma-unlocked role as it adds nothing to one's RP experience over playing something like an IAA other than being able to greenlight an execution.
  • The Nanotrasen Representative role is again the same role, simply without the execution authorization, making it redundant and another mechanical choice which has no real bearing on any situation or any roleplay potential.
  • On top of all of this, the IAA role is a complete joke if a magistrate or a Nanotrasen Representative exist anywhere on the station.

 

That being said, as it stands, I ask, What is the point of Space Law and the concept of evidence existing if all we are going to do is instantly throw someone who was arrested into a cell?  What the hell is the point of RPing an interrogation come to think of it? That's just more time used up according to what you're saying, and it serves no actual purpose, as an interrogation is a method of evidence gathering to prove one's guilt in something, and if proving an individual's guilt is not even a concern then why entertain the idea?

Also, this talk about it being a "time sink" and "processing takes up so much time" Is that really a bad thing, considering that the entire setting is based upon us being the crew of a commercial corporate space station? I'd think that bureaucratic backlogging would be prevalent and would be a good thematic choice to include.  Not to mention in all of this that extra time of security having at least one or two officers busy with a situation would give more of a chance for lone antags to actually do something rather than avoid doing objectives until an automatic crew transfer starts and makes everyone else to go escape because they run into a sec guard every 2 seconds as guards have absolutely nothing to do 99% of the time and wander EVERYWHERE at any given time.

A Proposal For Trials

A simple way of being able to include such a system (at least an expanded trials system where someone can actually ask for a trial without it being instantly denied) would be to raise the base prison time for all crimes. Meaning that a situation could be resolved in less time than a sentence would be and the stakes are higher for committing crimes ESPECIALLY considering that for some weird reason, on paradise crimes aren't supposed to compound. Which really makes it so crime has little in the way of consequences currently if you were to commit many at once, where you are only supposed to serve the most severe. With this system in place, the increased prison times give an actual consequence for committing crimes, period (Which would also justify the Karma cost of a Magistrate if they can prove they can make quick and reasonable decisions in trial instances as consequences for being jailed are more severe.)

  • The times can be increased by 5 minuets longer than what they originally were (Minor: 10, Medium: 15-20, Major: 20-25 respectively, and let's face it, if you are a non-antag committing to the idea of committing a crime you should be prepared to serve a decent amount of time And if you are an antag, then duh.)
  • Trials should take no longer than half of the prison time allotted for the crime severity in question, to which a prisoner's representation or an IAA can file Habeas corpus for their immediate release if the time has exceeded half the potential sentence.
  • Pleading guilty should have similar effects to surrendering one's self to the brig, as it cuts down on the time of a trial being conducted and their admission of guilt streamlines the process, therefore they should be rewarded with a lighter sentence.
  • Parole/fines should be recommended for minor crime offenders unless they re-offend, and Parole should be a more likely occurrence for cooperative defendants in general.
  • Minor crimes should be handled almost entirely through witness accounts as some things like trespass, vandalism and resisting arrest are hard to attain evidence for and really end up being the defendant's word against witnesses and security's word.
  • Medium and Major crimes should be under much more scrutiny compared to minor, where evidence is more important than hearsay.
  • Evidence should actually mean something, as in being able to prove that a person actually used an item in a crime as opposed to having simply picked it up out of curiosity as many-an assistant or bumbling crew member may do or that the person was brought into the brig without any contraband on them, yet it was claimed they used contraband when arrested (Which should incite a search for the missing contraband, searching through disposals and other places it could be hidden would be a fresh change of procedure, seeing as how the evidence would be important at that point) A failure to produce evidence in a reasonable amount of time (about 25% of the potential sentence) should lead to a termination of the trial and the release of the prisoner immediately, as the evidence was mishandled or non-existent as far as the court knows, therefore the accused may have in fact not have had the item in question to begin with.
  • The Magistrate is the one making the decision upon the guilty status of the accused (unless they have appointed a jury or some other entity to pass judgement) and the sentencing with recommendations by the representation of the accused, the security division, and their underlings the IAA agents. Giving them a purpose as a role, creating interesting situations by actually making parole or alternative sentences more likely to occur
  • A Lawyer, even if just a subset job title of the IAA could exist, for the sake of representing the accused.
  • In terms of representing the station, this may give more of a reason for the Nanotrasen Representative to exist as a role if they are to be modified to be the legal representation of the station rather than a higher ranking clone of the IAA role. Meaning that the IAA actually has some merit to exist if the Nanotrasen Rep is not stepping on their toes as a role.

 

Through all of this, I believe that would create an interesting environment, decrease the disparity between huge player populations and a lack of jobs leading to civilian tides, and it would fix the redundancy of the Detective role and justify the existence as well as fix the redundancy of the roles of Magistrate and Nanotrasen Representative as actual roles rather than higher-authority clones of an existing role, meaning it would be more reasonable to spend Karma  to unlock said roles.

 

 

Edited by EpicWinNoob

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A lot of good points there, but something I'd like to point out:

Any crime, up to and including mutiny, can be permissible within the rules with acceptable justification, and/or admin permission. I've given permission for murder and mutiny in the past - rarely - and plenty of times for lesser crimes! Seriously, ahelp for permission if you have -good- reason to want to beat the shit out of someone! This includes security, who I have many, many times, given the go-ahead to harmbaton someones legs to breaking point for.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, necaladun said:

A lot of good points there, but something I'd like to point out:

Any crime, up to and including mutiny, can be permissible within the rules with acceptable justification, and/or admin permission. I've given permission for murder and mutiny in the past - rarely - and plenty of times for lesser crimes! Seriously, ahelp for permission if you have -good- reason to want to beat the shit out of someone! This includes security, who I have many, many times, given the go-ahead to harmbaton someones legs to breaking point for.

 

 

I addressed this, However, the rest of the points are for the sake of crime itself, in terms of how law should handle it might need a fresh take on it.

 

Most of the point I am making is how to justify how the law is carried out on top of the roles associated with Space Law being mostly redundant in the current system. I was moreso addressing your concerns about time and how it could actually be interesting if it were using up that time.

Edited by EpicWinNoob

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Moreso that was just me trying to remind people to do so more often 😉

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16 hours ago, EpicWinNoob said:

-snip-

There's a lot of good suggestions in here, but the bulk of it would mean touching Legal Standard Operating Procedure which isn't presently on the table.

When that can of worms gets opened, we can take a look at expanding upon/streamlining the trial process.

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And then brigged for trespassing again as soon as they leave? Not having id shouldn't be a perma sentence. Especially because those without id are likely victims of a crime.

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On 6/30/2018 at 2:27 PM, necaladun said:

And then brigged for trespassing again as soon as they leave? Not having id shouldn't be a perma sentence. Especially because those without id are likely victims of a crime.

Good point, I think now that the person should be warned, then told to get a new one, failure to comply should be tresspass. If have it but don't have it on they should be warned, a second time results in tresspass.

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On 6/26/2018 at 6:05 AM, EpicWinNoob said:

-snip-

I like the aspects of evidence gathering, but the parts about trials are a bit idealistic, in my opinion. People will try and throw a wrench into the system for their own benefit. Trials will last longer than ten-fifteen minutes, I can guarantee this. And while a trial is happening for this long, other prisoners will be stuck in the system, effectively serving their time while waiting to go on trial to see whether or not they will be serving time. If there is a trial time limit until Habeas corpus can be called, there will be IAA/Lawyers who stall until then.  

On 6/26/2018 at 6:05 AM, EpicWinNoob said:

Not to mention in all of this that extra time of security having at least one or two officers busy with a situation would give more of a chance for lone antags to actually do something rather than avoid doing objectives until an automatic crew transfer starts and makes everyone else to go escape because they run into a sec guard every 2 seconds as guards have absolutely nothing to do 99% of the time and wander EVERYWHERE at any given time.

Backlogging will have the crew resorting to vigilantism after they realize the security team is too busy to respond.

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I feel like there should be some crime for building without permission(might be but im blind) it gives the CE's box of building permissions an actual use now.

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The closest thing I believe would be vandalism for deconstructing parts of the station in order to build a thing. That being said, a specific crime centered around building without a permit would be interesting. Especially considering the fact the CE ever actually has to use the building plans to designate areas of the station all that much.

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1 hour ago, EpicWinNoob said:

The closest thing I believe would be vandalism for deconstructing parts of the station in order to build a thing. That being said, a specific crime centered around building without a permit would be interesting. Especially considering the fact the CE ever actually has to use the building plans to designate areas of the station all that much.

The permits are only actually useful if you need to designate a new room.

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On 7/7/2018 at 7:43 PM, DocSocrates said:

I like the aspects of evidence gathering, but the parts about trials are a bit idealistic, in my opinion. People will try and throw a wrench into the system for their own benefit. Trials will last longer than ten-fifteen minutes, I can guarantee this. And while a trial is happening for this long, other prisoners will be stuck in the system, effectively serving their time while waiting to go on trial to see whether or not they will be serving time. If there is a trial time limit until Habeas corpus can be called, there will be IAA/Lawyers who stall until then...

...Backlogging will have the crew resorting to vigilantism after they realize the security team is too busy to respond.

I've seen it happen enough while having admin duties on a previous server I was a part of (It dissolved due to differing opinions of the creators and some coders) It can be done in a very short amount of time. At most, cases took under 5 minutes to complete, give or take 2 minutes due to minor stalling or ooc fuckups. Given that if a medium crime's minimum time is currently 10, or switched to potentially 15 as I have suggested, it would be a legitimate way of potentially avoiding the time served, or keep someone who actually was innocent from spending that time in a cell in a reasonable span. (and if you are spending that time for a minor crime, at least it's more interesting than sitting in a cell for 5 minutes) That being said, higher minimum times would make being accused and arrested for a crime more meaningful than simply going "well I punched a sec guard in the eye until he went unconscious, ill just alt+tab for a little bit and be good as new in a bit" you'd want to avoid spending that time in the first place without a good reason to. In other words, people would have to commit more to doing crime.

That being said, there should be no actual way to stall for too long if the magistrate has enough authority (as they should in jury-less trials) to move things along. I have an example of how it used to work; This is with the assumption that pleading not guilty is an option and they have decided to take the option, subjecting themselves to the time it takes. If it works as well as it has in the past, nobody should be waiting too long, especially if we're not dealing with a bunch of people who decided to commit crimes all at the same time. (Minor - Medium crimes usually take about this specific time-frame. Obviously worse crimes take more time but this is for the sake of an example of the general flow of things)

0. The Evidence gathering and testing, The interrogation, and the discussion of options with the accused are not taken into account, as interrogation time does not count as their cell time in any case. So in this instance, while an interrogation is taking place, the detective and forensic team should be gathering the required evidence to build upon the person's guilt in the event that they opt to plead not guilty and trigger a trial. Only when the person arrested is going to be taken to a cell should they have the option to make a plea and choose to go to trial if they qualify (which I get into later)


1. The Defendant and Plaintiff along with their counsel as well as ONE of the arresting officers in the incident, sit in their respective areas (90% of the time the station itself was the plaintiff, represented by an internal lawyer with centcom ties) while an audience of no more than 4 - 5 people file in.
(Takes about 30 seconds, given people aren't helpful intent dancing trying to get by eachother.)

2. Opening statements are replaced with a concise summary from both sides in 30 seconds after the Judge calls the court into session.

Example:
-Defense: "My client was arrested unjustly, there was nothing linking them to the scene other than their presence at the scene which was coincidental."
-Prosecution: "Mr. Anon was found over the corpse of Mike Hawk, geneticist, A bloody blue toolbox was found nearby. Mr. Anon killed him with the toolbox."
(Both parties are supposed to type and present their arguments simultaneously. In one message each. To separate their messages to reduce confusion in trying to read multiple lines from different people.)

3. The Judge asks for evidence to be provided, and up to 2 witnesses to the event (one for each side), who are allotted 30 seconds to give their testimonies.
(30 seconds. again, typed and given at the same time, in one message per person to avoid confusion when trying to read it)

Example:
-Prosecution: "The blue toolbox was covered in blood and the coroner's report says blunt trauma killed Mike Hawk. The Defendant's shoes were covered in the victim's blood. Anon was the only other person in the room when arrested."
-Witness Testimony 1: I saw Anon and Mike Hawk arguing with eachother earlier this shift. But I didn't see them get violent. Anon seemed like an okay guy. I don't know much more than that.
-Witness Testimony 2: I saw Anon walk into that room before. 10 minutes later when I went by again I heard some fighting. I didn't think it was anything serious, so I didn't go in, all I heard was some punching and something being thrown.

4. Cross Examination. Defense is given 1 minute to try and refute or support what was presented.
(Hard-limit of time like the witness testimony section, albeit longer because they have more information to go over and process all at once.)

 

5. Judge's Decision. Based upon everything presented and how they see the situation, they declare the verdict and the sentencing.
(Usually results in a minute or so of them going over everything a second time to make their decision, and this is also where the magistrate can ask someone to elaborate on their arguments, adding a variable of time to the situation through their discretion, which is why there is the ability to call for Habeas corpus if the trial is being stalled too long by the magistrate.)

All in all the actual process takes about 3:30 minutes, with about 2 - 3 minutes of buffer time needed if issues come up meaning about 5 to 6 minutes of actual trial time regarding medium crimes to which again, I suggest the minimum time for a medium crime should be 15 and the rest above medium shifted accordingly in order to raise the stakes for being arrested in the first place, as currently there is almost no consequence to deciding to commit any crime below major crimes. If this were the case, Habeas corpus kicking in at around the trial lasting more than half of the potential sentence can work. As there would be a limit of 7:30 on crimes that would amount to a 15 minute sentence which can easily be done well before that time comes up.

 

Caveats (Things that would end/extend/prevent trials altogether)
-Habeas corpus (Self explanatory, if it lasts too long, the defendant is simply free to go)
-Lack of evidence (If there is no actual proof of the evidence existing, the magistrate can simply call off the trial then and there and the defendant is free to go.)
-Battery/Assault of counsel, the defendant, the plaintiff, or the magistrate/security (whoever is responsible has their side punished and the trial ends with an immediate ruling, if the gallery is fighting with eachother, they are to be dealt with but the integrity of the trial has not been changed because of this.)
-Escape proceedings are underway (Obviously do not start or continue a trial during an escape. If a trial is currently in progress it shall be recessed, the defendant is to be taken with the other prisoners on the shuttle and the trial will continue at centcom, canonically)
-Red Alert (If there is a red alert or higher status in progress, all arrested parties are assumed to be guilty and will be given whatever minimum time or otherwise prescribed time in a cell)
-Enemies of the corporation (Enemies of the corporation are not entitled to a trial. Proof of EoC status such as high class contraband should be presented as evidence, and an immediate sentence be prescribed)
-Petty crimes (Petty crimes such as vandalism, petty theft, and the like should only have a minor hearing lasting no more than 2 minutes if they decide to take the option. Either a fine payed to the security office, probation, or a waving of charges, or minimum cell time should be applied to the offender in a timely fashion.)
-Major and Capital crimes (If there is no apparent emergency, or the offender is considered to be the source of an emergency and it has ended as a result of their capture, careful consideration and deliberation should be taken for this situation as they are looking at a long sentence/execution. More scrutiny should be present in these events, though it should not take longer than what the Habeas corpus time-frame for the crime they comitted should be.)
-Emergencies (Things that would make a trial an irresponsible event to be holding at the time or in a situation where every crew member is to be conscripted to combat a threat such as an outbreak, declaration of war, a blob etc.. all trials should be canceled until the emergency(ies) is/are resolved.)

It ran smoothly in the time I had seen it go down. With people playing their roles responsibly, as one should, especially with a Karma unlocked, high-authority role such as the magistrate. As a side-note Lawyers should be held in the same regard and requirements of responsibility to play, given that.


When it comes to the subject of potential vigilantism by crew members; Only the arresting officer is required to be present during the trial, security is as tight or loose as individual sec officers or the HoS wants it to be for a trial, we would really only be actively down one officer in a non-red-alert status, the impact would be negligible.

Edited by EpicWinNoob

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16 minutes ago, Shadeykins said:

The permits are only actually useful if you need to designate a new room.

Exactly the point, I'm sure that Tortise's idea was when people decide to take a room and change it for their own purposes not so much for "I accidentally built a table"  Something similar to a guest pass would be ideal for one to show they have been given permission to renovate/re-purpose an area.

like if I were playing a trader and decided I would take a section of the station like the pet shop, tool storage, a corner of a hallway or something and turn it into a sort of shop. That sort of thing.

Edited by EpicWinNoob
Clarifying

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18 hours ago, EpicWinNoob said:

I've seen it happen enough while having admin duties on a previous server I was a part of 

I'm glad it worked on another server, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will work on this server. Implantation would require an understanding from all participants, which doesn't always come easy considering the fact that it's common to find officers who don't know how to process a criminal. Sure, the Magistrate being a karma role that it is would ensure the magistrate knows what's going on, but any other non-karma role's competency is up to whomever is on. 

18 hours ago, EpicWinNoob said:

(Takes about 30 seconds, given people aren't helpful intent dancing trying to get by eachother.)

(Both parties are supposed to type and present their arguments simultaneously. In one message each. To separate their messages to reduce confusion in trying to read multiple lines from different people.)

(30 seconds. again, typed and given at the same time, in one message per person to avoid confusion when trying to read it)

Some crew can barely communicate as it is. Yes, this is a more RP oriented system and requires more communication (which I am a fan of), but this idea of simultaneous messages is idealistic. There will be lawyers who stop at the "Present Argument" phase, wait for the other side to present their argument, and then proceed to cross examine without an argument. That's improper procedure on the lawyer's part, and sure the defendant is now facing brig time because the trial fell apart, but now the IAA/Lawyer is claiming that Security is unlawfully sentencing crew, which in turn starts a riot. Yes, the lawyer is in the wrong, but that's not what he will tell the crew.

18 hours ago, EpicWinNoob said:

As a side-note Lawyers should be held in the same regard and requirements of responsibility to play, given that.

 As Magistrate? Certainly not at the same karma cost, but I doubt we would have and lawyers then, all things considered.

18 hours ago, EpicWinNoob said:

(Enemies of the corporation are not entitled to a trial. Proof of EoC status such as high class contraband should be presented as evidence, and an immediate sentence be prescribed)

So the current system? 

If evidence can be presented which negates the trial in the first place (because the defendant is an EoC), then wouldn't evidence in a lesser crime justify not having a trial for that defendant? This is the reason we don't have trials for time sentences right now.  

 

Lastly, I don't know what the situation on that other server was in terms of lore, but I assume it might be the same. Regardless, it's worth remembering that Nanotrasen has a poor record with ethic violations. They've employed and maintained an elite death squad ready to wipe out a station's crew at the snap of a finger. The only reason the intergalactic governments haven't stepped in is because Nanotrasen has a monopoly on the plasma trade, along with the fact that NT's navy rivals Sol's. Intervention would lead to a plasma shortage and an all out war.

Why does this matter? Well, Nanotrasen aren't necessarily the good guys. I can't exactly argue that there's an evil bald super villain sporting a fluffy white cat sending his enemies to some elaborate death, there's evidence that Nanotrasen has landed in a grey area. What you are arguing as a trial system feels a lot like something that would take place on a Sol station, or another government sponsored station. Giving a trial to anyone who asks for it is a mighty fine right that I don't believe Nanotrasen would be willing to grant. There are no unions as it is. 

 

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11 minutes ago, DocSocrates said:

(1.) I'm glad it worked on another server, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will work on this server...

(2.) Some crew can barely communicate as it is. Yes, this is a more RP oriented system and requires more communication (which I am a fan of), but this idea of simultaneous messages is idealistic. There will be lawyers who stop at the "Present Argument" phase, wait for the other side to present their argument, and then proceed to cross examine without an argument. That's improper procedure on the lawyer's part, and sure the defendant is now facing brig time because the trial fell apart, but now the IAA/Lawyer is claiming that Security is unlawfully sentencing crew, which in turn starts a riot. Yes, the lawyer is in the wrong, but that's not what he will tell the crew.

(3.) As Magistrate? Certainly not at the same karma cost, but I doubt we would have and lawyers then, all things considered.

(4.) So the current system? 

If evidence can be presented which negates the trial in the first place (because the defendant is an EoC), then wouldn't evidence in a lesser crime justify not having a trial for that defendant? This is the reason we don't have trials for time sentences right now.  

 

(5.) Lastly, I don't know what the situation on that other server was in terms of lore, but I assume it might be the same. Regardless, it's worth remembering that Nanotrasen has a poor record with ethic violations. They've employed and maintained an elite death squad ready to wipe out a station's crew at the snap of a finger. The only reason the intergalactic governments haven't stepped in is because Nanotrasen has a monopoly on the plasma trade, along with the fact that NT's navy rivals Sol's. Intervention would lead to a plasma shortage and an all out war.

Why does this matter? Well, Nanotrasen aren't necessarily the good guys... Giving a trial to anyone who asks for it is a mighty fine right that I don't believe Nanotrasen would be willing to grant. There are no unions as it is. 

 

(1.) All I am saying is that there is precedence and that it is completely valid and possible to be done in a timely fashion, while still adding depth and a few gameplay quirks along with it.

 

(2.) Keeping things orderly and on track is the Magistrate's department and if a lawyer is screwing up or attempting to purposefully stall or break their procedure, it's the magistrate's right to make an immediate ruling due to one side or another breaking the procedure. Not to mention, just like any other high responsibility role, you should know what you are getting into and take some time to learn it beforehand. If a lawyer is going in and purposefully fucking with a situation, they should be ready to handle consequences of delaying the situation, further complicating it on purpose, muddying up the situation should eventually become a bwoinkable offence if complaints are being brought up as it should be handled easily IC. (and honestly a riot now and then would be interesting, considering it is listed as a crime but there is never a reason, even with sufficient IC reasons to start or take part in a riot without being bwoinked because revolution and nations are not in rotation to begin with.)


(3.) I don't believe Lawyers should be a karma cost to begin with. In fact, I have suggested that they become an IAA subset, possibly replacing the Human Resources Iaa subset. This also makes a lot of sense considering that you later go on to describe that in lore, Nanotrasen is a less than reputable company, and I would see private lawyers in place of a human resource agent in any case. Which would mean the IAA would be in charge of representing the station while Lawyers are free agents who could support whoever they decide to or are contracted by.
 

(4.) No, I mean in specific cases where someone is considered an enemy of the corporation. In order to be defined as that, you need to have evidence of the person in question either being a hostile supernatural being, or an agent of a rival or otherwise noted faction defined as an enemy of the corporation. Which means testing them for their supernatural status and attempting to reverse certain situations such as possession, brainwashing or cult indoctrination, or in the case of a mundane EoC, proving that an individual is associated with the syndicate or otherwise possessed gear from factions counter to Nanotrasen.

Quote from the space law wiki page:

Quote

"Occasionally, you will encounter personnel that are working for an enemy of Nanotrasen (such as the Syndicate) and/or are working to undermine Nanotrasen's operations.

Current enemies of Nanotrasen include but are not limited to: The Syndicate (through secret agents, boarding parties, and brainwashing specialists), the Space Wizards Federation, Changelings, Shadowlings, Vampires, and other intelligent hostile forms of life that seek to cause major damage to the station and or crew."


Simply assaulting people, stealing things that aren't high grade contraband/grand theft, attempted or actual murder, are not grounds for considering someone to be an enemy of the corporation, as their intentions are not fundamentally counter to Nanotrasen the company so much as an individual associated with Nanotrasen and again as you later describe, Nanotrasen cares more for their corporate status rather than the individual most of the time. Ideally, only antagonists would take part in some of these higher rated crimes, however it is a rule that one can commit a higher level crime as a non-antag with admin permission if it wouldn't sufficiently ruin a round. That is simply demonstrating that crime can happen commonly enough outside of EoC activity.

 

(5.) It seems that the definition of how they handle themselves waivers a lot. I get that in lore they are this company that gives little to no care for human life and will risk everyone for the sake of a dollar, but they have a lot.. A LOT of safeguards before extremes are taken in any case. I get that it is for ooc enjoyment to keep everyone from deciding to open the gamma armory during a nuke round. But if the company was as cold and completely indifferent as they are depicted, any excuse to quickly obliterate a problem and ask questions later would be taken.

It is because of these inconsistencies that I believe this system would be able to exist comfortably in the setting. That, and similarly to how the safeguards for extreme action are in game to keep people having a good time ooc just in case things don't need to be as crazy, with the amount of people who are actually arrested incorrectly could benefit from this, and it can also give a chance for those who are actually guilty to attempt to weasel their way out and make things more dynamic rather than binary.

 

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I loved seeing the guy who runs around without pants on get put into perma since he keep doing it. I guess it's a good way to disencourage minor crimes.

Edited by Benjaminfallout

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